Just a few days before Heir Apparent’s first appearance on their Greek mini tour in Athens, and amid intense preparations and rehearsals, the RockpagesTV camera joined Terry Gorle and the band’s new vocalist, Michael Karam—also a member of Noor—on a rooftop for a conversation about the band, their return to Greece, the new album, the past, the present, and the future, as well as grunge! Interview: Sakis Nikas Camera: Yiannis Dolas
Rockpages.gr: How do you feel to be back in Greece?
Terry Gorle: Well, for me it’s great. I never thought we’d be able to do this, so quickly, especially with a new vocalist. We’ve been trying to plan this thing for about six months and originally with Harry (Ed, Conklin)… Boy, I don’t even know where to start with that story, but to cut a long story short… In the middle of April, he decided to leave the project, and within hours, Thomas volunteered to save the day. So, we’re able to stay on schedule and make this work. The original plan was to come over here and mix the album and get together to rehearse because we needed band photos.
And the only way to do that was to fly everybody to one location. And at the same time, you know, because people found out we were coming, they asked if we would do shows… So, all of a sudden the shows kind of took over the priority; and given the circumstances, with having to bring in somebody new with two months to prepare a whole show that became the focus. And that’s where we’re at right now. We’re working on songs. There’s ten on the new album, and then there’s songs that are part of the show, and we can’t play the album during the show, so that meant a lot of learning “Graceful Inheritance” and “One Small Voice” material on short notice. I guess I’ll let Thomas speak to that, because I’m very impressed with what he’s done so far.
Thomas Karam: I didn’t expect I was going to rehearse yesterday! My flight was very long, and I was stuck in the airport after this for almost three hours. And then I took the metro, which was very long. So I arrived… I didn’t assume I would even make it to the rehearsal, but I was like, “I’m there”! My brain is not working fully… at least the pressure was off. I knew if I fucked up, I could blame it on the plane.
Rockpages.gr: How do you feel becoming a part of Heir Apparent’s history?
Thomas Karam: It’s crazy honestly! The whole thing happened so fast that it took me a while to digest it and there’s a lot of people back home who thought it was like a late April Fool’s joke, you know?
Rockpages.gr: What can you tell us about the new album?
Terry Gorle: This whole project… it’s only about six or seventh months old that the material started being written. So, it’s all pretty new. I mean, because with, with Covid happening kind of set everything back for 4 or 5 years… my wife and I were both working from home and didn’t really know that there was going to be anything to follow because there was no band, essentially.
The only reason to reform this whole thing was that we were invited to go to Keep It True last year and try to get Paul Davidson back in shape. So, we spent a year trying to do that. And if not for that invitation, the band wouldn’t be here now to be in a situation where we could actually get Thomas involved.
So, it’s a series of some fortune and some misfortune that made the whole thing happen. Paul wasn’t able to do what we had hoped with the whole show, so we had to bring in Harry. And then we planned on an album with Harry, but he’s got several other projects and a lot of other commitments. To be honest, I think a lot of this material was probably pretty hard for him. I mean, Steve Benito’s range is really high and it’s difficult for any singer. That’s the biggest problem with this band over the years: we’ve always needed a singer who was capable of doing the material. It’s just very hard to find somebody that’s got that kind of a range and can do this for 3 or 4 days in a row without losing their voice. So, this is like a breath of fresh air to be able to have Thomas do this and like I said yesterday he impressed everyone after a 12-hour flight and all kinds of other headaches and just walking in and nailing it. So, yeah, we’re very happy.
Rockpages.gr: How does the new material sound like? Is it similar to “The View From Below”?
Terry Gorle: I don’t think it’s very similar to the last album much at all. We had keyboards the whole time on the last record and with almost years going by between that and the previous stuff we’ve matured… our tastes have evolved and what we always try to do is write material that features the vocalist, right? Put the vocalist’s best foot forward and write things that are in their range and in their comfort zone. The odd thing about this album is that this was kind of framed for Harry. And then we discovered that he didn’t think it was suitable for his voice. So, Thomas was not in mind when we wrote this material, but it was designed for vocals to try to dominate and be the focal point. We want to be supportive and have musical impact behind a really strong melody and a really strong vocal presence. So, we’re just incredibly fortunate that Thomas has thrown his hat in the ring to take on the challenge. And he’s excelling at it. It’s very impressive. So, I think it will actually be better now than with just about anybody else I could think of, because I’m hearing Thomas do things to our old material that are better than what was there for 40 years.
Thomas: Thank you!
Rockpages.gr: So, is Thomas a permanent member of the band?
Thomas Karam: I hope so! There wasn’t a discussion!
Terry Gorle: (laughs) I hope so! I’ve asked him if he wants to add guitar to things in the future when there’s more time to work things out… whatever you want to do man! I’m in!
Thomas Karam: I saw my name on Metal Archives, so I’m assuming that I am…
Terry Gorle: Oh, they’ve already added you there!
Thomas Karam: Yeah.
Terry Gorle: Well, then I didn’t even have to ask the question. It’s already written in stone.
Thomas Karam: Exactly.
Rockpages.gr: Is it safe to say that Heir Apparent’s story is a series of unfortunate events?
Terry Gorle: I’ve always dreamed of being in a good band and finding out what a real tour is like. And I’ve never really had a chance to do that much since the very first tour of Europe in 1986 I think we were over here for 5 or 6 weeks and we played in 5 different countries. Only 12 shows. But, at that point we thought, “well, this is just the beginning, right?” And then that was it! I mean, the band only played 4 or 5 shows. The “One Small Voice” lineup (played) locally around the Seattle area as we were writing material and by the time the album came out, everything had dissolved. So, everything for the last years has been… trying to reunite things for the sake of representing the old material. And it took, you know, it took a long time to find a vocalist willing to do the work for another album, and Will (ed, Shaw) was ready to do that in 2016. He had volunteered to come in and fill in for a couple of shows, and decided that he wanted to continue doing it and work on an album. So I mean, I’m really proud of what we ended up accomplishing in 2018 with that album, in that circumstance.
It’s kind of easy to find people to come in and learn a bunch of stuff that’s already written for a special event, like to recruit somebody to go to Europe for a couple of weeks. It’s not difficult to do because there’s a prize, right? You get to go on a trip and you learn a few songs. It’s easy to find people to volunteer to do that. It’s much harder to find people that are ready to put in the commitment and the time to do something new, and something original, and put their heart and soul into it. And that’s always been the difficulty… you can see potential in people and you can try to bring them in and convince them to participate, but you can’t make anybody do anything they don’t really want to do.If their heart’s not into it, it doesn’t matter what kind of potential you see, they’re not going to live up to it unless they want to. So, I’ve spent a lot of time being extra patient with people for years and years and years hoping that they would get involved and stay involved.
One way or the other it just doesn’t happen. Life gets in the way. People have family commitments, work commitments and I had those as well. It’s a hard thing to do and there’s no guarantee of making a dime. So, you spend a lot of money and a lot of time and you do a lot of work, and you cross your fingers and hope for the best.
And we’ve just finally got to the point where, I think last year, the shows we did with Harry and Paul, it was the first time that the band went on a trip ever and paid all the bills and made a little bit of money, you know? So, I mean, we sold enough merchandise to have a little bit of money afterwards.
Like I said, it’s the first time in 40 years that that’s happened, so this opportunity this year… we’re crossing our fingers that it works out well. And we’re getting the album done. We’re kind of forcing some things to happen. But that’s what it takes, right? You hustle, you make things happen, and you hope for the best. And if you’ve got the right people involved, it can work. And by all sense, I think we’ve got the right people involved.
Rockpages.gr: What can you say that are the realistic goals for the band now?
Thomas Karam: Terry said that he is very confident with this lineup, so I hope that we can pull it off with the album. I want to make the best record possible. And there’s songs on there that that I’ve heard and I said I prefer them even over the classic stuff! My favorite used to be “Dragon’s Lair”, but now when the new album is going to be out, there’s going to be a new favorite for me. I’m a bit biased, but not that much, honestly. My hope for those shows is to honor the legacy of a band that’s been there before my parents even met. But, I’m very confident and personally, I just want to keep making music. I’m having fun. Every time I talk to people back home, I just tell them I want to have accumulated stories for when I have grandkids and I can tell them on Christmas…
Rockpages.gr: Does the band heritage from the ‘80s create more pressure to you?
Thomas Karam: No, because I sang a lot of these songs when I was younger. I’m not gonna lie… like there’s, on Noor’s first album I stole one part from “The Clock”! There’s a song called “Hoodlum” on the first album of Noor and there’s a part that’s very similar to something on “The Clock”. So, the pressure is there because I have to perform well, but at the same time, I’m not unfamiliar with the stuff. I had already a bit of advantage and I already did the demo for “Tear Down the Walls”. I chose this one because I sang it so much. So, it’s going to be very easy for me.
Terry Gorle: When I look into the future, I just feel really good to have an opportunity to find a young vocalist with a lot of talent. He’s a great guitar player as well. I don’t know what the future brings for this band. I just know that we want to put our heart and soul into something and make it as good a music as we possibly can. And if this band lasts for six months or six years, that’s great. I just I’m going to feel good knowing that I’ve done something to assist him in his musical future. It’s just going to feel good to be a part of that because I expect him to go on to big things long after I retire.
Rockpages.gr: Do you think that things could have worked out better with another manager and a bigger budget?
Terry Gorle: Well, it’s pretty easy to assume that it would be. Kim Harris was going to be our manager. We were slated to be the second project after Queensrÿche, and we were ready in 1984 to record the album. And Queensrÿche got really popular, really busy, really fast. And they insisted that that Kim and Diane Harris give them their 100% attention. So, two weeks before we were supposed to go to record the album in 1984 they backed out. So, I’d already booked the time of this in the studio, so I had to. I went to my parents and I borrowed 3,000$and we cut the budget back and just recorded the five song demo in 1984 to try to pick up the pieces and build something ourselves from that point forward.
If “Graceful Inheritance” would have come out in 1984 as scheduled with management and the label connections with EMI and things that they had with Queensrÿche… Who knows what could have happened. We might have had some success. A lot was changing in those days in a two year period of time. If anybody thinks “Graceful Inheritance” was any kind of a landmark in 1986 imagine two years earlier, right?
But, it’s all speculation, right? And at this point I can daydream, but it doesn’t really do me any good. So, I have to be realistic about it, you know, and think that maybe we just weren’t quite good enough to get the attention from people in 1984 that we needed. And even in 1986 we had to go to an independent label and just be thankful that people took interest and be thankful that what did happen happened and gave us this opportunity all these years later. I can’t really say that I’ve got any regrets about it, because if it wasn’t for the fans and the underground thing that they put behind this band, we wouldn’t be here now. So I’m just very thankful.
Rockpages.gr: So, many metal bands came from Seattle but still it was named the grunge capital. What happened?
Terry Gorle: There was no music business in Seattle back then. So, there was there was 7 or 8 really good metal bands. Culprit started it all back in 1981-1982. But, there was no infrastructure. There was no interest in original music that promotion and production companies for music up in Seattle back then only cared about top 40 bands.
We couldn’t get any interest from the LA labels. Nobody cared about it. And when we were meeting with Metal Blade/Capitol for the “One Small Voice” negotiations a year before the album came out, they were sending up people to look at bands kind of pre-arranging the grunge movement. They would receive a black and white photograph from some band that looked cool and they would sign them. When we met with one of the reps for Metal Blade, they were up there to watch a band that was so strung out on heroin, they couldn’t even play. And it’s 1988 right? Well, before the grunge thing took off…
Hollywood planned that whole thing. There was Soundgarden and Alice in Chains, all those bands were brewing and growing. They’re legitimately great bands, right? But, it’s the business that decided to take interest in Seattle and that’s where they put their focus. And then they were able to grab these bands and capitalize on them and create the machinery that made it all work.
When we were around, all L.A. cared about was Poison and Motley Crüe and, you know, the glam stuff… So, you know, we went through that phase where we put on spandex for six months because we thought that’s what you gotta do, right? We were just making things up as we go, trying to do whatever it takes to get the attention. But, yeah, that’s the critical thing about timing too. People in LA had some affiliations with things. They were planning the “Singles” movie. They orchestrated the bands, they created this whole grunge thing and nobody in Seattle cares about what’s happening in Seattle until New York tells us it’s cool. So, when Pearl Jam goes back East and does a bunch of touring and stuff, then New York suddenly says “hey, gee, there’s something brewing in Seattle”. Then, all of a sudden people care. It was just a few years too late.
So, it’s kind of ironic that most of those grunge bands went through their thing and came and went. There’s a couple still around, but the original metal bands that were there from 1982, to 1986-1987 five of us are still active after all these years, but that’s because of the devotion of the underground. Metal Church and Sanctuary, Nevermore… some of those people have had great success. So, it’s again speculating on “what ifs”. It’s not going to change where we’re at. All we can try to do now is make a great record and hope for the best and just go out and play as well as we can and hope people respond.
